Sync to right behavior

[Ernie]

The "Only affect visible files" is one of the things that we thought was confusing in BC2, which is why it wasn't brought forward as is. If you have to do that you can use folder compare's "Select All Files" command first. If you can give a good description of why the old behavior regarding collapsed folders is desirably for you we might be able to improve things.

I'm not sure if my scenario is included in your request for a description, but here goes ....

I have a few BC2 sessions which I used basically for archive purposes, to synchronize source and a backup folders. Over time, I've maintained the sessions to excluded newly added files I didn't need in the backup folder(s).

Now, what I do is launch BC2 with one of these sessions, minimize it, let it do its comparison, and come back later. Some of these tend to be large directory structures.

I will then select View Mismatches But No Orphans to display only those source files which already exist in the backup folder, and which have changed since the last synchronization. Then, I use a custom sync left to right and select the Only affect visible files and Next and Start and just update only newer files from source to backup folder.

Once that is complete, I would select Only Mismatches which would then display only left and right orphans (step above took care of matching source/backup files/folders). I could review the left (source) side for any new files and select to exclude any files/folders I didn't need to be archived. Once I did that, I would save my session, and proceed to custom sync left to right, basically adding new left orphans (which I want to archive) and delete right orphans (which I really don't need anymore).

Using BC3 Folder Sync, I don't see anyway to just display Only Mismatches But No Orphans to mimic my method of 'custom' synchronization.

Possible bug:

By the way, from the BC3 folder view, I opened an imported session, and selected Session -> Sync Base Folder In New View. But, I decided not to test on my 'real' folders, so I copied the two into a tmp directory and updated the Left folder and Right folder to point to the tmp copies. I refreshed and continued to play with copying/mirroring ... only to later realize that the folders had been changed from my tmp copies back to the originals. I had basically 'corrupted' my real folders without really paying attention , guess that was my bad ... should have checked before proceeding.

Luckily, I had copied my original folders to a tmp location for testing, so I just trashed the 'real' folders and put the copies back into place.

Should a refresh on a Folder Sync change the folder(s) if you actually meant to use different folders with the same session settings?

[Tom]

Thanks, Erik!

[Erik]

On a semi-related note, though, the folder sync wasn't cooperating in the way I expected because I forgot to go through the default settings. I didn't notice them in the "home" treeview until now. Are they in a different order from BC2 on purpose? If not, it might make sense for ease of transition to have 'em in the same order. Here's the comparison between BC2 & BC3:

In the next release (build 464), they'll match BC2's order.

[Tom]

In the "Folder Confirmations" section of the Options dialog there's a "Synchronize confirmations" group, with the choices "Prompt", "Yes to All", and "No to All". The default is Prompt, in which case it does prompt when overwriting newer files and the like. It sounds like you have yours set to "Yes to All", which is why it isn't prompting.

Nope, it's still at the default Prompt. Dunno why it'd overwrite a subdir & contents without prompting, but it did. I'll see if I can recreate the situation, but I might not get time before next week.

[Tom]

I think you're confused by the terminology I'm using, so I've attached a screenshot to help.

Thanks -- I'll have to play with it some more and get back to you. It does look like I got confused, because after editing the exported XML and reimporting so my sessions changed types, I think I was still getting the Folder Compare UI. Sorry it's taking longer for me to mess with it, but I've been working a temp job that's mostly 12-hour days and I'm getting a bit behind on my "play" time.

On a semi-related note, though, the folder sync wasn't cooperating in the way I expected because I forgot to go through the default settings. I didn't notice them in the "home" treeview until now. Are they in a different order from BC2 on purpose? If not, it might make sense for ease of transition to have 'em in the same order. Here's the comparison between BC2 & BC3:

[Zoë]

In the "Folder Confirmations" section of the Options dialog there's a "Synchronize confirmations" group, with the choices "Prompt", "Yes to All", and "No to All". The default is Prompt, in which case it does prompt when overwriting newer files and the like. It sounds like you have yours set to "Yes to All", which is why it isn't prompting.

[Zoë]

I think you're confused by the terminology I'm using, so I've attached a screenshot to help. The included image is of the "Sync Session". You can get to it from the Home view using the "Folder Sync" button, or from the Session menu as "New"->"Folder Sync" or "New"-"Sync Base Folders in New View". That view does not require a selection.

The view you seem to be using all the time is the "Folder Compare" one, which has the Copy, Delete, Touch, Attributes, etc commands. The "Synchronize"-"Update/Mirror Left/Right" submenu is just one of many things you can do in that view, and, like all of the other commands, it always acts only on the selection. If you want to use this view for everything you'll just need to use "Select All" (Ctrl+A) before using the sync commands.

[Tom]

Apologies Tom. We've had a huge influx in tech support recently and we've fallen behind in forum responses.

Thanks, Craig! I can definitely understand that, especially as release nears. I realize also that my questions weren't simple ones, so I doubly appreciate your taking time to address 'em.

The directory sync ability is already in, in the form of the Folder Compare's Update/Mirror commands and the dedicated Folder Sync session. We've never said we'd bring back the "Custom Sync" commands exactly as they were because it was never our intention to do so.

Okay -- I probably misunderstood.

You don't need to select anything for the "Folder Sync" session. It always acts on the entire directory structure, excluding anything that was explicitly filtered. Are you seeing something different?

Yes. When using Folder Sync, BC seems to select the top-level folder. If I perform actions on files or child folders, then actions seems to be limited to those since they're the last things selected (unless I unselect 'em with a shift-click, in which case there's "nothing to do"). I thought since the thing to do in that view is Sync (Folders), it would still operate without having specific selections.

The sync command also doesn't have a "files only" setting anywhere, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

Sorry, I was referring to the display filter when doing the Folder Sync.

I think the lack of overwrite prompts is just a bug, but I'll have to talk to the other guys on Monday to confirm that.

Sounds good.

The "Only affect visible files" is one of the things that we thought was confusing in BC2, which is why it wasn't brought forward as is. If you have to do that you can use folder compare's "Select All Files" command first. If you can give a good description of why the old behavior regarding collapsed folders is desirably for you we might be able to improve things.

My main activity for BC is to take one dir tree from a large partition and back it up across multiple smaller partitions. To help that along, I manually unset the Archive bit once files are copied, and I use the display filter to hide the copied ones when I compare subsequent locations. It's a bit of a challenge to maintain that method, but regular backup programs don't seem to handle multiple destinations without using a proprietary archive file format that then gets split as it overflows the first destination.

I love that the destination files are intact, and it also gives me an "undo" capacity if I should edit or replace files in the source dirs and later decide or realize that it was a bad idea. I'm trying to adapt that approach to BC3, but I guess I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the new layout and design of BC3 after using BC2 since before the turn of the century. Heh!

[Zoë]

Apologies Tom. We've had a huge influx in tech support recently and we've fallen behind in forum responses.

Hmm -- we've been being told all along that the dir sync ability would be added to BC3 before release.

The directory sync ability is already in, in the form of the Folder Compare's Update/Mirror commands and the dedicated Folder Sync session. We've never said we'd bring back the "Custom Sync" commands exactly as they were because it was never our intention to do so.

I spent some time messing with the Folder Sync session type. Seems like we still have to select all files for the "mirror" function (set to "files only"), which is the closest I can find to BC2.

You don't need to select anything for the "Folder Sync" session. It always acts on the entire directory structure, excluding anything that was explicitly filtered. Are you seeing something different? The sync command also doesn't have a "files only" setting anywhere, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

What is the benefit of Folder Sync over Folder Compare, or vice-versa?

The Folder Sync is optimized and simplified to handle synching entire folder structures. If you had "Just selection" unchecked in BC2 (so it always affected the entire folder structure), then you'll want to use BC3's Folder Sync session, and it should actually be better, since once you have it set up as a session it's just a single button click to sync it again.

The Folder Compare is the full-powered, interactive comparison. If you need to tweak things, or handle files a bit at a time you should use this. The Update/Mirror commands there now always require a selection so they match all of the rest of the commands in that view.

Also, how is Folder Sync different than a BC2 sync -- is it just that the "different but present" items are overwritten at the destination without prompting? (Personally, I'd appreciate being prompted.)

They're really pretty similar; we're just trying to tease things apart to make synching easier. Our intention is that anything you could do in BC2's sync should be easier and/or more obvious using either the Folder Sync or the folder compare's dedicated sync commands. I think the lack of overwrite prompts is just a bug, but I'll have to talk to the other guys on Monday to confirm that.

Bug report: Even with Options/Folder Views/Confirmations/Include hidden items by default unchecked, Mirror (to right) still deletes items in a non-visible (collapsed) folder.

"Include hidden items by default" refers to items hidden by the display or file filters. The current behavior is that if you select a folder and act on it, it's roughly the same as expanding it and acting all of the visible children.

The "Only affect visible files" is one of the things that we thought was confusing in BC2, which is why it wasn't brought forward as is. If you have to do that you can use folder compare's "Select All Files" command first. If you can give a good description of why the old behavior regarding collapsed folders is desirably for you we might be able to improve things.

[Tom]

I never got any response. Please let me know if there's anything online or in BC help that explains this.

What is the benefit of Folder Sync over Folder Compare, or vice-versa?

Also, how is Folder Sync different than a BC2 sync -- is it just that the "different but present" items are overwritten at the destination without prompting? (Personally, I'd appreciate being prompted.)

Bug report: Even with Options/Folder Views/Confirmations/Include hidden items by default unchecked, Mirror (to right) still deletes items in a non-visible (collapsed) folder.

[Tom]

The Synchronize feature in BC2 generated a lot of confusion and complaints, so we don't intend to replicate it. BC3's Folder Compare has limited sync commands but if you have sessions dedicated to synchronizing folders you should try the Folder Sync session type.

Hmm -- we've been being told all along that the dir sync ability would be added to BC3 before release. This is really discouraging news to get at the end of the beta cycle after I've been helping test since last year. I've been quietly waiting for that to be added, and when I saw the announcement of a target release date of the end of the month I figured I'd better make sure I hadn't missed something. I'm hoping it's just that I'm misunderstanding the terminology or maybe some minor functionality.

I spent some time messing with the Folder Sync session type. Seems like we still have to select all files for the "mirror" function (set to "files only"), which is the closest I can find to BC2. What is the benefit of Folder Sync over Folder Compare, or vice-versa?

Also, how is Folder Sync different than a BC2 sync -- is it just that the "different but present" items are overwritten at the destination without prompting? (Personally, I'd appreciate being prompted.)

Bug report: Even with Options/Folder Views/Confirmations/Include hidden items by default unchecked, Mirror (to right) still deletes items in a non-visible (collapsed) folder.

[Tom]

Textual search & replace for an XML file sounds like a decent solution since it can be done all at once. Thanks, Tim! I'll give it a shot.

I still have to get used to the idea of making mass changes via XML -- it's a powerful capability. Is there any chance that will be exposed in the UI in some way? Maybe it would be worthwhile to have a routine saving the XML to a temp folder, calling an external editor (or a primitive built-in editor) and then saving changes back to BC! Heck, it could even keep a short history for undo capability and testing. Since you guys have a release date looming on the horizon, maybe it could be done as a plugin after BC3 goes final? (If I knew how to program I'd definitely jump in and offer it to the community.)

BTW, it struck me that it's useful to slightly change the names of the sessions so you can test 'em before committing to the changes. For example, I had the search string set to TDirCompareSession Value=" and the replace string set to something like TDirCompareSession Value="x (that way the session names are still recognizable but are kept isolated from the originals).

[Tim]

The Synchronize feature in BC2 generated a lot of confusion and complaints, so we don't intend to replicate it. BC3's Folder Compare has limited sync commands but if you have sessions dedicated to synchronizing folders you should try the Folder Sync session type.

If you have a bunch of sessions imported from BC2 that you want to convert to Folder Sync sessions, you might try this:
1) Export just those sessions (from BC3) into an .xml file
2) Edit the .xml file and replace all instances of TDirCompareSession with TDirSyncSession
3) Import the .xml file back into BC3

[Tom]

Scooter, is there going to be something comparable to "synchronize to..." (right or left) from BC2? Please tell me I don't have to go through manually and convert several dozen BC2 folder sync sessions manually the way Jeff describes.

[goldsy]

Thanks Michael. For those that run into my situation and want to convert the session, I opened my session. Then went to Session|Sync Base Folders In New View. Tweak the sync options and do a save as to save your session as a folder sync.

Cheers!