462 "Show None" and (*) Toggles

[chrisjj]

462 "Show None" and (*) Toggles
Customise Commands "Show None" "[X] Show command on toolbar" doesn't work when Display filter mode = (*) Toggles.

[Tim]

That's correct. "Show All" and "Show None" are mutually exclusive.

[chrisjj]

> "Show All" and "Show None" are mutually exclusive.

Uh? I was referring to Toggles, not Show All.

[Tim]

"Show All" = all toggles on
"Show None" = all toggles off

[chrisjj]

The "Toggles" I'm referring is not the state of the toggles you mention, but to the value of the "Display filter mode" radio button group labelled "Toggles".

[Zoë]

In other words, you're asking that we allow showing the "Show None" toolbar button when the display filter style is "Toggles"?

[Tim]

"Show None" is one of the composite display filters, like "Show All" and "Show Left Orphans". Composite display filters are used by the Drop-down and Favorites choices.

It has been suggested (and is on our wishlist) that we support Toggles on the toolbar along with composite filters. If we implement this at all it won't be soon. In the meantime you can assign a Show None keyboard shortcut to clear all Toggles.

[chrisjj]

> In other words, you're asking that we allow showing the "Show None"
> toolbar button when the display filter style is "Toggles"?

To be 100% precise, I was only pointing out only that the option doesn't do as it offers, but since you ask yes my preference is that it do so (and what you've described is indeed that) rather than the alternative fix to the discrepancy, being to adjust the offer.

"Show All" would need to accord.

[Michael Bulgrien]

Yes, several beta testers have requested that "Show All" and "Show None" be allowed on the toolbar with toggles.

And no, I do not want other composites on the toolbar with toggles...just the "Show All" and "Show None" buttons. I don't understand the "it won't be soon" response for this since we are only talking about two buttons.

[markf_2748]

For example.

I vote for having the option to add those 2 buttons, especially when using toggles. Otherwise, please fix the confusion which arises from not allowing them.

Thanks.

[Erik]

Not having "Show All" and "Show None" on the toolbar in this case should only be a slight inconvenience. You can access them from the menu (you'd need to add "Show None"), and/or assign a shortcut to them.

In order to support this request, we'd have to drop the "Display filter mode" option. We'll consider it, but making this change will make it much less convenient to change which display filter buttons show.

[markf_2748]

In order to support this request, we'd have to drop the "Display filter mode" option. We'll consider it, but making this change will make it much less convenient to change which display filter buttons show.

I am not sure what you mean by "Display filter mode" option. However, I would never want to give up "RMB in toolbar region" > "Display Filters" and "RMB in toolbar region" > Toggles. That is my standard setup.

I do not understand the intricacies of your logic here, and while I can certainly live without those two buttons on the toolbar, as I have said before it is bad for the product to confuse people in the "RMB in toolbar region" > Customize Commands > "Show command on toolbar" , which silently fails for these two buttons when toggles are visible. I believe this is also the main point which chrisjj is trying to make in this thread. Both of us, and by extension others, have been tripped up by this.

[Tim]

Suffice to say, the U/I for configuring and displaying display filter options needs improvement, and probably an overhaul. I think we understand all the concerns and suggestions posted.

We won't have time to work on this before next week's launch, other than perhaps some clarification in the Customize dialog and in the help file.

Thanks,

[Michael Bulgrien]

I believe this is also the main point which chrisjj is trying to make

Maybe... but real inconvenience is not being able to set or reset all toggles simultaneously from the toolbar. If it weren't for that limitation, we wouldn't be trying to add the buttons to the toolbar in the first place.

[Tim]

It now looks like we will have a new design by the full launch. Eric is working on it now. Here's what it will be:

All composite (eg. Favorite) and toggles display filters will be on equal footing. You can have any combination of them show on the toolbar. So Michael, you can show toggles + Show All + Show None. Goofy configurations are possible - like showing only one toggle - but that was also possible before. The current confusion in the Customize dialog is eliminated: When you enable "Show on toolbar" the command will in fact appear.

In addition to the "Show on toolbar" option, the composite filters will also have a "Show on drop-down" checkbox, so you can configure your own combination of regular toolbuttons and dropdown items.

The current "Display filter mode" (DropDown/Favorites/Toggles) goes away. It is replaced by "presets" with the same names. Choosing a preset (DropDown/Favorites/Toggles) will set all the "Show on toolbar" and "Show on drop-down" checkboxes to match the factory-default layouts of the current modes.

The old design let you configure which composite filters would show in DropDown and Favorites mode, and then quickly switch back and forth between modes. You can't do that in the new design: If you have a customized layout of display filters and then pick one of the presets, your custom layout is thrown away.

In a nutshell, the new design lets you either quickly switch between the three factory-default layouts or set a static custom layout, but not both.