Copy Doesn't Seem to Copy

[zapatero]

I am a new BC user so I may be doing something wrong that I don't understand.

I have only a single original of a boot floppy so I want to make a copy of it for safety reasons. To do so, I have to copy to hard drive, and then back to a new floppy, because I have only one FD drive. Having done that, all within BC3, and verifying bit-by-bit comparisons each time, I now find that my new FD copy does not work. The original does.

I could understand this if I was just doing a simple DOS copy, as the system files would be hidden and would not copy. But with BC, I can see the system files in there; and again the bit-by-bit comparisons confirm that the floppies, (via hard drive), are the same.

Can someone help me understand what is going on?

Thank you very much,
~~z

[Aaron]

Hello,

If you enable Suppress Filters, do any additional files appear that may have been hidden and not copied using BC3?

If so, please also copy those files.

You will also want to run a Compare Contents, Binary compare to see if all of the files copied as exact duplicates.

Lastly, BC3 would only copy files as seen in Windows Explorer. Is it possible the original floppy was formatted in a special way or has a special boot sector of some sort?

[zapatero]

Hello Aaron, thank you for your response.

Hello,

If you enable Suppress Filters, do any additional files appear that may have been hidden and not copied using BC3?

If so, please also copy those files.

You will also want to run a Compare Contents, Binary compare to see if all of the files copied as exact duplicates.

Lastly, BC3 would only copy files as seen in Windows Explorer. Is it possible the original floppy was formatted in a special way or has a special boot sector of some sort?

With filters suppressed, and binary compare, both sides show the same files.

For coordinates, so that I'm not making things even more confusing, you have 3 buttons, top-left: Show All, Show Differences, Show Same. The middle one has 10 options. With filters suppressed, and binary compare, when I Show Same, or when I Show Differences, (any of the 10), all files appear on both sides! Clearly I am doing something wrong -- or don't understand what I am doing.

Re formatting, I didn't create the floppy so I cannot answer. I probably wouldn't be smart enough to answer even if I did create it

Any help greatly appreciated -- I am fearful of losing this disk

[chrroe]

I now find that my new FD copy does not work. The original does.

What is on that Floppydisk?
What exactly does not work?
Does it work when you copy to a USB-Stick or similar?
Does it work when you make an image of the disk and mount it?
Maybe there is a copy-protection on the original?

Bye
Christoph

[Aaron]

With filters suppressed, we suppress the Display Filters as well, so it wouldn't matter which Show All, Show Same, or Show Diff you pick. All files show up (in teal, if the filter currently would hide them.)

If you would like to see if things are different, disable Suppress Filters or watch the center column for the content comparison results. Suppress Filters was just to make sure some file wasn't being missed (an 11th file, hidden by other filters.)

In addition to Christoph's suggestions, it does sound like you may need to try an "imaging" program of some sort to make a perfect/exact disk image, rather than trying to copy files. Copying just the files does not seem to be enough.

[zapatero]

Thanks to both of you, I think the answer to this puzzle is beginning to emerge. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The floppy is for booting, and then cloning for backup, my main hard drive. It was given to me by the chap that built my computer to accomplish this task until I get my own backup software working. Well, I have that software, but like so many other things in my life I never got to it. I just continued to use this subject floppy because it worked. But then I tried to back it up, and the rest you already know.

For further detail, the floppy contains nine files. All of these pass the binary compare tests. However two of the files are within a folder. When I perform the binary test with the folder shown, the folder does not pass the binary test. At this point I am still too new to BC to know: Do folders show whether there is a binary compare?

Anyway, based upon the things that both of you have said, it appears probable that some sort of copy protection was inserted when that floppy was created by the (GHOST) software, to protect their own software license. That seems like a legitimate precaution, albeit a bit inconvenient.

Please tell me if you think I have hit or missed.

Thank you again for your time and patience.

[snidely.too]

I am wondering if the problem is whether the new floppy has an MBR (Master boot record). It won't be a boot floppy without it. If it wasn't formatted as a boot floppy, it needs to be reformatted as one. BC3 doesn't touch the MBR, so there isn't anything it can do.

On my Vista system, the command line format.exe help doesn't indicate how to make a boot floppy ... I thought it was "/s" but I can't verify that at the moment. I don't have a floppy drive, either, but Windows Explorer may have a "format as system disk" option under the File menu.

/dps

[zapatero]

Interesting point, snidely. I thought that might be the answer, but all I could find under File > format a:\ was: "Create an MS-DOS Startup Disk". I tried that, but it put ten files on there, and none of them were the same as the ones on my subject floppy. And then it didn't leave enough space on the disk to copy the originals over anyway. So I guess this way isn't going to work. It seemed like a reasonable answer to me.

Otherwise, in lieu of any other ideas, I have pretty much concluded that it must be a copy protection issue. If so, I don't wish to violate the license agreement. Still though, out of intellectual curiosity, it would be interesting to see if I could duplicate this floppy. But now, as you see, if it were to be cloned, the floppy would have to be used to clone itself. This does get interesting doesn't it?

It gets funnier yet. If I instead take the time to learn to use my own new cloning software to clone this floppy, then I might just as well use it to create my own floppy in the first place -- and then I will no longer need the one that I just cloned! Intellectual curiosity has just become recursive absurdity!

I am still interested in this copy issue, but I don't want to waste any more of you kind folks' time. I have learned from you that it is either an MBR problem or a copy protection problem, which is more than I knew when we began. So, unless anyone wishes to pursue this further, I can live with that. Thank you, and be well!

[snidely.too]

Interesting point, snidely. I thought that might be the answer, but all I could find under File > format a:\ was: "Create an MS-DOS Startup Disk". I tried that, but it put ten files on there, and none of them were the same as the ones on my subject floppy. And then it didn't leave enough space on the disk to copy the originals over anyway. So I guess this way isn't going to work. It seemed like a reasonable answer to me.

I'd try to delete those 10 files and copy the ones from the subject floppy. All you are interested in from File>format is the MBR.

/dps

[zapatero]

I'd try to delete those 10 files and copy the ones from the subject floppy. All you are interested in from File>format is the MBR.

/dps

BINGO!, snidely -- You did it!!! Good job! So it was an MBR, and not a copy protection problem. Well, I learned a lot from this exercise!

Back to BC, however; something I still don't understand:

When I suppress filters, (then, [as I understand], BC shows everything that it knows about). If I then,

1) Ignore Folder Structure, it shows a binary compare on all nine files on the floppy (as it should)

2) But when I "Compare Files & Folder Structure", it shows binary compare on seven of the files, but the folder containing the other two files does not show binary compare. Does this mean that the folder structure is really not the same, or does it mean that BC isn't designed to show binary compare on a file structure? (Sorry, I'm still a beginner with BC.)

[Aaron]

The center column does not populate for folders, since only the files themselves are being scanned. A folder is aligned and allows the files inside to also align. If you expand the folder, you should see the aligned items inside have the center column populated.

If you configure your Session Settings to Override Quick Test results, then and equal content compare will mark the files as equal. This status coloring would populate up to the folder color, which indicates the status of the items inside of it.